Comments on: I’m not sure what to make of this….. http://www.politicalbyline.com/2009/04/17/im-not-sure-what-to-make-of-this/ Right of Center, Not Stuck on Stupid Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:14:56 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: bluespapa http://www.politicalbyline.com/2009/04/17/im-not-sure-what-to-make-of-this/comment-page-1/#comment-4564 bluespapa Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:56:24 +0000 http://www.politicalbyline.com/?p=9517#comment-4564 Whether or not the al Qaeda is uniformed or not is precisely the sort of legal nicety that creates spaces (not on U.S. soil), methods (not worse than organ failure or death), motive (not to inflict pain, but to gain intelligence) that ultimately offers all the fig leaves, excuses, rationals, that turn a nation into a torture state. Tying the hands of future presidents? That's, fortunately, what laws do, and what should have tied the hands of the last president. When you get around to articulating what is sickening to you about torture, why it should be sickening to everyone, and why despite that it is sickening some sick people think it valuable when, on a practical level, it produces less, not more intelligence, when it produces statements that are less, not more, reliable, you might begin to understand both the greatness of humanity, and its terrible failings. Whether or not the al Qaeda is uniformed or not is precisely the sort of legal nicety that creates spaces (not on U.S. soil), methods (not worse than organ failure or death), motive (not to inflict pain, but to gain intelligence) that ultimately offers all the fig leaves, excuses, rationals, that turn a nation into a torture state.

Tying the hands of future presidents? That’s, fortunately, what laws do, and what should have tied the hands of the last president.

When you get around to articulating what is sickening to you about torture, why it should be sickening to everyone, and why despite that it is sickening some sick people think it valuable when, on a practical level, it produces less, not more intelligence, when it produces statements that are less, not more, reliable, you might begin to understand both the greatness of humanity, and its terrible failings.

]]> By: Paleo Pat http://www.politicalbyline.com/2009/04/17/im-not-sure-what-to-make-of-this/comment-page-1/#comment-4563 Paleo Pat Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:42:31 +0000 http://www.politicalbyline.com/?p=9517#comment-4563 Valid opinion, anyone else? Valid opinion, anyone else?

]]> By: janine http://www.politicalbyline.com/2009/04/17/im-not-sure-what-to-make-of-this/comment-page-1/#comment-4562 janine Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:36:44 +0000 http://www.politicalbyline.com/?p=9517#comment-4562 Geneva Convention or no, these actions were also prohibited by the Army Field Manual and the '94 U.N. Convention against Torture. I think what often gets left out is the effect this had on our highly disciplined troops who were given this "Wink, wink. You know what to do." That's how our overseas prisons turned into the Milgram Experiment. I know that the memo focuses on the CIA, but 1) they often used the military in their work 2) they're also supposed to follow the Army Field Manual. Army Field Manual has been the source for interrogation procedures for ALL branches of government since 2005. This off-book behavior benefits no one and I see it as a protective move for the military that Obama has made it difficult for them to be used in that way again. I don't want to get all U-S-A!, but we don't need torture to kick ass. Geneva Convention or no, these actions were also prohibited by the Army Field Manual and the ‘94 U.N. Convention against Torture. I think what often gets left out is the effect this had on our highly disciplined troops who were given this “Wink, wink. You know what to do.” That’s how our overseas prisons turned into the Milgram Experiment. I know that the memo focuses on the CIA, but 1) they often used the military in their work 2) they’re also supposed to follow the Army Field Manual. Army Field Manual has been the source for interrogation procedures for ALL branches of government since 2005. This off-book behavior benefits no one and I see it as a protective move for the military that Obama has made it difficult for them to be used in that way again. I don’t want to get all U-S-A!, but we don’t need torture to kick ass.

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